Comments on: Popular opinion sways the City Council

By: Joel

Joel — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:50:36 +0000

Strange post. I don’t see how you can say “popular opinion” swayed the council, unless the number of people present at the meeting either (a) was a majority of OR residents or (b) was a highly representative sample of the OR population. More accurately, something about the content and/or tone of the arguments presented affected the council. Until some kind of poll or referendum is taken, I don’t see how “popular opinion” is being measured.

By: GoldenAppleCorp

GoldenAppleCorp — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 19:09:26 +0000

Well, popular opinion doesn’t necessarily mean of our entire city. If you say that, then you can say “Well, they didn’t poll the entire state about it…” As an Oak Ridge citizen, I can see the need for another hotel and, honestly, it wouldn’t affect me either way if it were put in Woodland, so my opinion is kinda pointless. But whatever.
I heard at one point (Abatello said) 23 people talked about the hotel at the meeting, of which only 2 or 3 were in favor. Most of the people speaking lived on the same street or within one or two streets of the proposed site. I would think that their opinions would carry more weight than any other resident.

By: Joel

Joel — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 19:19:49 +0000

Since it is “City Council,” I don’t think anyone would say they should poll the whole state.

I agree that the opinions of folks who live nearby should be accorded due weight, but the financial impact of this decision affects all city residents. It is always the conundrum of elected representatives. To what extent to they “represent” and to what extent to they lead.

By: GoldenAppleCorp

GoldenAppleCorp — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 19:24:34 +0000

Well, I believe that one of the points of the citizens who spoke last night was that the hotel is a good idea, it’s just a bad location.
Instead of putting it there, it seems like there are plenty other places that would be more accomodating.

By: daco

daco — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 19:31:32 +0000

Got an empty mall that isn’t going anywhere. How about using some of that property?

By: AT

AT — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:40:24 +0000

Joel… are you complaining about the content of my post, or the use of the word “popular”? Obviously, Joel, there is not a scientific sample made, but when you watch 2 consecutive city council meetings with an majority of speaking citizens rooting in favor of status quo, it starts to creep into the realm of ‘popular’.
How would you have phrased it, Joel?

Daco, GAC and I are of the thinking that the mall would make a damn good skate park. Swear away liability, and let the kids go to town.

By: Joel

Joel — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:13:02 +0000

Well, isn’t that the problem with politics today? Is that noise you hear a chorus of many voices or just a few squeaky wheels? From Netmom’s liveblog yesterday, I got a clear impression of how the comments were running among those able and willing to attend the meeting. But experience teaches me that the people with the time, energy and motivation to attend city council meetings seldom represent a cross-section of the electorate. It can be, as was demonstrated last night, an effective way to sway the vote, but whether it reflects a popular consensus is another thing.

“Squeaky wheels sway city council” would be an uncharitable heading.
“Activists sway city council” would be a more positive spin.
Either one acknowledges that these may be unrepresentative of the city at large.

Yes, I’m being pedantic. If you start charging by the word, I’ll edit my posts.

By: Netmom

Netmom — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:52:50 +0000

The thing I still don’t understand is this: during the budget hearings, even more people showed up and spoke in favor of funding the school system’s request. They didn’t debate it at all, and voted in lockstep.

What made last night different? Abbatiello voted against it because he had made a specific request of Patel in regard to the traffic flow (ingress and egress), and Patel didn’t incorporate those requests in the plans. So, it was the old “take my ball and go home” routine. But I’m puzzled by why citizen input at the last minute made such a difference last night, but none at all last May.

Strangest of all, two of the three voting for the hotel are those who are up for election next June. Just when I think I understand, I find out that I haven’t a clue.

By: Anotherthing2

Anotherthing2 — Tue, 26 Sep 2006 22:29:35 +0000

Netmom,

They had a city wide survey to fall back on and hide behind when it came to school funding and last night between emails, telephone calls and citizens showing up it made a difference to a minority of council who changed their votes.
Well it’s one thought anyone.

By: daco

daco — Wed, 27 Sep 2006 01:56:25 +0000

Fully funding a school system vs passing the zoning ordinances necessary to build a hotel in a residential area.

Which one costs less?

By: AnotherAtomicCitizen

AnotherAtomicCitizen — Wed, 27 Sep 2006 06:09:01 +0000

I think the sway came to Mosby by Golden and Beehan. Mosby did not find it viable to put a hotel in his backyard, yet he supports the commercialization of Illinois Avenue. That is interesting to sit with people like Mr. McNutt, who stated the subdivisions across Kingston Pike businesses between North Cedar Bluff Road and Hayfield Drive have managed to sustain quality life without encroachment of their communities by commercialism. Mosby found this jewel to not fit well within historical preservation of Oak Ridge. That is a nice quality by me.

Now Abbatielo stated what he wanted from Patel last month, and that was safety of the citizens. Patel came back with the same plan. Patel’s lack of interest to change his entrance showed that he did not mind if Abbatielo was going to vote against his hotel. Patel was hoping for the quorum by the rest.

What a fatal blow to think that losing one vote was okay. Not the kind of thinking I would employ when making proposals. Patel should have tried using some of his money to make the change or prove otherwise and win Abbatielo. Mosby made comments last month that would have made me look harder at Abbatieloâ€™s request. Mosby stated that he was very interested in the historical preservation of the Woodland Community. That is a tough plan to incorporate with a 5-story building going up.

Golden, well Iâ€™m still learning about him, but Beehan? Those PUD alterations of communities will not fit very well while Beehan is trying to rebuild Highland View. This is an effort he is fully invested in, and what a difference that has made to those people.

As for the ORSB budget proposal, this will once again fall into the hands of the communities. We will see how well prepared the community is to bring up budgets requesting money. The citizens of OR can prevail against these businesses wanting to ride on the coattails of OR tax abatements. I may be one of the people at the Municipal Training room to discuss and spectate it with the Industrial Development Board at their next special session. Soon there will be more of a need in education over businesses in OR, again.

I would like to say vote for the better person, but I havenâ€™t seen any improvement of the Anderson County Election Commission. Everybody needs to prepare to have this county spread across national news by voting fraud or privilege.