Comments on: Can we all just get along? http://www.atomictumor.com/2006/10/21/can-we-all-just-get-along/ Tue, 07 Oct 2008 02:04:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.2 By: Joel http://www.atomictumor.com/2006/10/21/can-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-3729 Joel Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:25:32 +0000 http://www.atomictumor.com/2006/10/21/can-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-3729 " . . . the schools aren’t much of a priority compared to general housekeeping, like bringing in business, or repairing blighted neighborhoods. Should we deal with the city as a whole, get something put in that albatross of a mall downtown, get some decent businesses in town, fix up shitty parts of town, and come back to the schools in a few years?" One hand washes the other. Yes, schools are a big factor in the decision about where to live, so the fortunes of OR businesses are tied, to some extent, to the success of the schools. But the available jobs, as well as amenities and the perception of "a good place to raise kids" are important to most folks as well, and so the property taxes that fund the school system are tied to the business climate. They are inextricably bound together. It is my impression, however, that OR is fighting an uphill battle. The historical status of OR schools as among the best in the state owes itself to two historical artifacts: payments in lieu of taxes by the federal government and a parent demographic highly skewed to the academic and highly motivated. As those legacies have dissipated, and as the population of OR homeowneers has shifted towards fixed income retirees, the financial strain of maintaining an extraordinary school system is, it seems to me, becoming insurmountable. It has been said that Americans want Democratic benefits paid for at Republican tax rates. From where I sit, OR looks like a microcosm of this American attitude. The folks on the 'tuma look to me like an exception. But it will take a large influx of upper income residents and high end businesses to subsidize this lifestyle. How's that for provocative? ” . . . the schools aren’t much of a priority compared to general housekeeping, like bringing in business, or repairing blighted neighborhoods. Should we deal with the city as a whole, get something put in that albatross of a mall downtown, get some decent businesses in town, fix up shitty parts of town, and come back to the schools in a few years?”

One hand washes the other. Yes, schools are a big factor in the decision about where to live, so the fortunes of OR businesses are tied, to some extent, to the success of the schools. But the available jobs, as well as amenities and the perception of “a good place to raise kids” are important to most folks as well, and so the property taxes that fund the school system are tied to the business climate. They are inextricably bound together.

It is my impression, however, that OR is fighting an uphill battle. The historical status of OR schools as among the best in the state owes itself to two historical artifacts: payments in lieu of taxes by the federal government and a parent demographic highly skewed to the academic and highly motivated. As those legacies have dissipated, and as the population of OR homeowneers has shifted towards fixed income retirees, the financial strain of maintaining an extraordinary school system is, it seems to me, becoming insurmountable.

It has been said that Americans want Democratic benefits paid for at Republican tax rates. From where I sit, OR looks like a microcosm of this American attitude. The folks on the ‘tuma look to me like an exception. But it will take a large influx of upper income residents and high end businesses to subsidize this lifestyle.

How’s that for provocative?

]]> By: Netmom http://www.atomictumor.com/2006/10/21/can-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-3731 Netmom Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:40:28 +0000 http://www.atomictumor.com/2006/10/21/can-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-3731 Hmmm. Joel already covered my initial thoughts (more eloquently, even). As far as "Democratic benefits at Republican tax rates," one of the primary tenents of the Republican philosophy (which, I know, many elected Republicans seem to have forgotten) is that <i>the best government is the one closest to the people.</i> In other words, do as much locally as possible -- for the local taxes we pay, we get 100% of the benefit. At the state level, some is lost in the bureaucracy, and at the federal level, it tends to be a "one size fits all" approach that doesn't fit much of anyone very well except in a few instances like national defense and social security. Just this year, Oak Ridge gave a 3% raise to teachers. Knox County gave 4.5%. Blount Co., Maryville, et al gave about 4%, I think. <i>We're no longer as far ahead as people think we are, and we're losing ground.</i> The quality and reputation of Oak Ridge schools have a great deal to do with the future economic prospects of the city. Hmmm. Joel already covered my initial thoughts (more eloquently, even).

As far as “Democratic benefits at Republican tax rates,” one of the primary tenents of the Republican philosophy (which, I know, many elected Republicans seem to have forgotten) is that the best government is the one closest to the people. In other words, do as much locally as possible — for the local taxes we pay, we get 100% of the benefit. At the state level, some is lost in the bureaucracy, and at the federal level, it tends to be a “one size fits all” approach that doesn’t fit much of anyone very well except in a few instances like national defense and social security.

Just this year, Oak Ridge gave a 3% raise to teachers. Knox County gave 4.5%. Blount Co., Maryville, et al gave about 4%, I think. We’re no longer as far ahead as people think we are, and we’re losing ground.

The quality and reputation of Oak Ridge schools have a great deal to do with the future economic prospects of the city.

]]> By: AT http://www.atomictumor.com/2006/10/21/can-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-3732 AT Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:31:19 +0000 http://www.atomictumor.com/2006/10/21/can-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-3732 Great thoughts, Joel and Netmom. Joel really sums up what has become my thinking, in that being single minded on school excellence, while commendable, may not be entirely realistic. I might be among a group unique in the city in that my children are at the ages where any slacking in the school system will affect them. Thing is, smart kids get into good colleges from crappy schools. Smart kids (ahem, like me) drop out of state colleges after graduating from excellent schools. Joel also hit it on the nose about the changing demographics. I've never perceived Oak Ridge the way you guys do. Hell, I didn't even realize what Oak Ridge was back in the old days (scientists on every road) until I started talking with ol' Daco. Its not that town in 2006. Great thoughts, Joel and Netmom. Joel really sums up what has become my thinking, in that being single minded on school excellence, while commendable, may not be entirely realistic. I might be among a group unique in the city in that my children are at the ages where any slacking in the school system will affect them.
Thing is, smart kids get into good colleges from crappy schools. Smart kids (ahem, like me) drop out of state colleges after graduating from excellent schools.
Joel also hit it on the nose about the changing demographics. I’ve never perceived Oak Ridge the way you guys do. Hell, I didn’t even realize what Oak Ridge was back in the old days (scientists on every road) until I started talking with ol’ Daco. Its not that town in 2006.

]]> By: AT http://www.atomictumor.com/2006/10/21/can-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-3733 AT Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:32:41 +0000 http://www.atomictumor.com/2006/10/21/can-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-3733 NM, I was under the impression that Oak Ridge worked on a set floating raise package for teachers. Are you referring to the starting salary for new teachers? NM, I was under the impression that Oak Ridge worked on a set floating raise package for teachers. Are you referring to the starting salary for new teachers?

]]> By: daco http://www.atomictumor.com/2006/10/21/can-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-3735 daco Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:23:06 +0000 http://www.atomictumor.com/2006/10/21/can-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-3735 You see...this is why I visit this place. You guys are all so smart. Excellent post Joel. The changing demographic is what scares the crap outta me. Not only the ever increasing percentage of retired folks, but the ever increasing percentage of non-professionals. Not only does the tax base decline, but the importance placed on our beloved school system is diminished. Joel absolutely nails it in this statement..."One hand washes the other. Yes, schools are a big factor in the decision about where to live, so the fortunes of OR businesses are tied, to some extent, to the success of the schools." Why in the world would the future plant manager or CEO of a prospective business move to Oak Ridge if we don't have an excellent school system, above average police protection (meaning a low crime rate), good retail shopping, diversity in housing options(all in clean safe neighborhoods), relatively low property tax rates, etc? The point is they won't choose Oak Ridge without most of those options available to them. The fact is if the school system sucks or is in a declining position there is absolutely no way they would choose Oak Ridge over a competing community. No matter how great the mall is or how cheap the property taxes are. You see…this is why I visit this place. You guys are all so smart.
Excellent post Joel.

The changing demographic is what scares the crap outta me. Not only the ever increasing percentage of retired folks, but the ever increasing percentage of non-professionals. Not only does the tax base decline, but the importance placed on our beloved school system is diminished.

Joel absolutely nails it in this statement…”One hand washes the other. Yes, schools are a big factor in the decision about where to live, so the fortunes of OR businesses are tied, to some extent, to the success of the schools.”

Why in the world would the future plant manager or CEO of a prospective business move to Oak Ridge if we don’t have an excellent school system, above average police protection (meaning a low crime rate), good retail shopping, diversity in housing options(all in clean safe neighborhoods), relatively low property tax rates, etc?

The point is they won’t choose Oak Ridge without most of those options available to them. The fact is if the school system sucks or is in a declining position there is absolutely no way they would choose Oak Ridge over a competing community. No matter how great the mall is or how cheap the property taxes are.

]]> By: daco http://www.atomictumor.com/2006/10/21/can-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-3736 daco Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:26:02 +0000 http://www.atomictumor.com/2006/10/21/can-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-3736 PS...I think you are reading your poll all wrong AT. It doesn't tell me that education isn't important...it just tells me that you only gave us one opportunity to cast a vote for what we thought was important. PS…I think you are reading your poll all wrong AT.
It doesn’t tell me that education isn’t important…it just tells me that you only gave us one opportunity to cast a vote for what we thought was important.

]]>