May 24th, 2007 by Atomictumor
So, for the past two weeks Pigpen has been showing some aggression in the classroom. He’s been complaining all year of one or two kids hitting him, as is their preschool wont, and during the course of the year his response has moved from going to the teacher, to hitting them back, to doing a GWB style pre-emptive strike, to now, when he “had (child X) in a cubby whaling on him with both hands”. Now, child X has been a problem for the Pen all year, but its apparently getting to the point where the aggression that Pigpen seems to have found effective on this boy has spread out to other kids.
I’ve been working it as much as possible at home, initiating a bold new “no hitting while horseplaying with your brother” rule, curtailing television shows displaying violence for PP, and trying to drill in (in a 5 yr old manner) that other kids have feelings just like he does and it hurts them when he hits.
Today, tho, the teacher who loaded him up in the car told me that, apparently unprovoked, he spit on a kid in the car-riders line right before I picked him up. He was on the defensive already, screaming at the teacher who put him in the car that “YOU DIDN’T SEE ANYTHING” and denying up and down what happened. Through my powers of deductive questioning, however, I bested my 5 year old and got him to admit to doing it, at which point I set into him for:
a. spitting on some poor kid (Pigpen couldn’t tell me why he did it, or who the kid was)
b. lying to me about it (always a very serious offense in the Tumor house)
After calling and talking to his teacher, this is really setting it in for me that my little sweet Pigpen has been, for about the past two or three weeks, really becoming a little bastard of a bully. Thats bad, because he’s a big ol’ kid, stubborn as hell, and will be a nasty bully if this keeps up.
Now, the problem is, with MastaG I always had discipline figured out, and I just don’t have my finger on what makes Pigpen tick. BJ had more of it, but the boy was darn near as much a mystery to her as he is to me. MastaG, at 5, got the soapy toothbrush when we busted him lying about something or other (he was never a hitter, it might have been when he was busted using foul language), but I don’t feel like that’d be the right tact with Pigpen. In fact, he kinda likes the taste of soap, so I’m certain all it would do is waste a toothbrush. I’m not adverse to spanking, but this isn’t a spanking situation. Spanking is only really useful (in my opinion, and oh boy, is this going to start something) in situations when the kid is doing something that immediately threatens live or limb, and isn’t stopping when requested.
Something that needs a quick and brutal solution on a purely animalistic level.
I never use it anymore. I digress tho, because this issue isn’t a spanking issue.
The boy sobbed all the way home because I was angry. I didn’t even have to yell (but I did a bit anyway, just to hammer it in). I put him in the bed, and he got up to pee about 30 minutes later. He asked if I was still mad, and I said “Pigpen, you spit on a kid today. Thats one of the rudest, meanest, nastiest things you can do, and you had no reason to do it. Thats not something a sweet, good boy does. Yes, I’m mad. Go back to bed.”
Kids.
May 24th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
My gut tells me this might be a grief reaction? Kids don’t always deal with things right away. Or could have been an end of year thing, or even an “I wonder what will happen if….” I think you handled it well. I’m not a spanker (more of a swatter) — doesn’t work too well in my house.
May 24th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
I think you handled it very well.
You are a good dad.
May 24th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Could just be age, but I would err on the side of considering KICS programs, Katerpillar Kids Camp or something similar. Might be a good time for all of you to spend a long weekend at the grandparents, too.
May 24th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
You’re a good daddy, AT. Don’t let anyone ever tell you any different, If they try to, you just send ‘em on to me. I’ll set ‘em straight.
May 24th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Don’t stay mad too long… He made it clear that he’s sorry, so give him some kind of punishment and move on. (And let him know that you’ll always love him, even when you don’t like what he did).
Hugs for everyone involved.
May 24th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
Suzanne is right. He may need to write a note of apology to the kid he spit on and to his teacher. This could very well be some pent up anger of the death of his mother. Anger is one of the stages of grief. It is never too young to get someone to help him deal with that anger and that grief.
May 24th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
The spitting sounds like normal kid brattiness to me, and the bullying is still in the early stages -where you can nip it before it goes too far. If he was as upset at your disapproval as it seems, I’d say that will be your most effective tool. You are a good daddy, I doubt he’ll grow up to be a thug.
May 24th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
insider’s perspective … i know, for the most part, all the kids involved and i think pigpen falls prey to mimicking more than anything. maybe, though, i give him a big break because i pretty much think he’s the cat’s meow. there are some less that stellar peer models surrounding him (and any other kid in school) but he’ll learn soon enough the whole “just because so-and-so is doing it doesn’t make it cool” idea. i’m not saying the kid spit on him first today or that the kid had it coming or anything like that because i didn’t see. but i know that incidents like pigpen’s are not uncommon with the kids in the car-riders line. yeah, i think it will be nipped in the bud early on. you are doing good with that kid.
May 24th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
I have two boys myself, now teenagers, and my husband and I always did what WE felt was best at the time. Your a wonderful daddy and your kids know you love them, that’s the foundation of discipline.
May 24th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
I think it may be a grief reaction too. Maybe some anger that he doesn’t quite understand is coming out in the only way a 5 year old knows that feels good - physical agression. I think your instincts about not spanking in this situation are right on. Actually your instincts always seem to be really good with regard to your kids. I suggest addressing the specific act as you are and then maybe being observant to what else might be going on with him that he needs help dealing with.
May 24th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
AT: I had one that would actually bring me the soap because he liked it so much. With that one I figured out what meant the most to him and removed it . Because of his age I would only try it for maybe 2 days the first offense. If more occur increase the time he looses that privledge. Maybe it’s tv for him, maybe its video games. You have to figure that one out but it has to be something that really hits home. This avoids the spanking.
May 24th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
I think you’re getting to enjoy two worlds: the let’s see if i can get away with X coupled with maybe some anger/grief issues.
Remember when you would post about not “feeling” certain things? Maybe PP is “feeling” some things. Kids lack the insight some adults have about their emotions so boys in particular tend to act out in anger. Bullies are really just kids with unresolved anger issues.
I would talk to his school counselor and see if s/he would be willing to talk to him. I used the GC a lot during my divorce. And you know, after 6 years my almost 11 year old is struggling iwth that now? She seemed f-i-n-e. All of a sudden BLAM! Not fine.
Parenting is hard. Well good parenting is. And you’re doing pretty damn good AT.
May 24th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
I hear you AT, effective discipline is hard and mysterious. I’ve said I feel like I’m turning corners w/ the eldest, October, but really it’s like that w/ all of them. Sometimes I don’t know what to do. The kids, all other people when you get right down to it, are mysteries to me.
You’ve got some good advice here. Still, the pure frustration of trying to discipline your kids is a hard load.
May 24th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Every kid is different, and what works with the first is often completely ineffective with the second (it’s certainly true at my house).
Somehow, I think the way you handled it is probably best. That doesn’t mean it will never happen again, but with consistency, I bet it stops pretty darn quick.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Wow!! Lots of advice.
The fact that PP was so upset that you were angry is a good sign. I’d keep working that. Maybe look for a daily behavior report?
Bravo on the not spanking.
And thanks for backing the teacher up.
signed,
A teacher who has seen it all (pretty much)
May 24th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
You did fine!
5 years old is such a magic age. They actually care that you are disappointed. I love it! Just make sure you go in and kiss him goodnight. He still needs to know Daddy always loves his little dude, even if he’s disappointed.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Hang in there dad. From where I sit, you’re doing fine. Too early to panic.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Best of luck with the Bully situation. No one can give you the magic answer, frankly you are doing awesome! From this side of the screen, it looks like PigPen has a maturity issue, and he is torn between MastaG and kids at school. He is searching for his own way I think.
I spent years trying to figure out the youth of today, while fighting the urge to have martini’s with my ritz crackers at snack time. Stay strong and tough, it will help you in the long run.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
I am digging pretty deep to figure out W too. One minute she is a sweet child the next she is killing the cat or smacking me open handed across the face. I am thinking back on the really dumb ass things I did for no reason and it seems that I got the harshest punishment for those. Like kicking my fellow classmate in the nuts in first grade on a field trip, smashing the jack-o-lanterns just to see how it felt while wearing my dress shoes in second grade, and lighting the carpet on fire and blaming my sister when I was four. Each time I simply remember just sort of “trying something different” than what I would usually do which was to be the quiet middle child. I think when it becomes a pattern is when something it is up.
I remember this bully from middle school. He tormented the hell out of me. It was one of those things where it served me best to lay low. But, I tell you, there is not a time that goes by when I wished I had just laid that prick out just once even if I did get my ass kicked. But that is just a little off topic.
Advice — I would let things settle after the initial punishment. Maybe bring it up with PP when the dust settles a little bit — maybe grab a bite to eat and have some one on one time with the little guy and sort it out a bit. It is a jungle out there in boyhood land even if it is just preschool. Some things may have been said over snack time that just didn’t sit well with young Pigpen. They may be talking about what they are going to do with their families over the summer and he is feeling that he doesn’t have a mom like the other kids. I know when my parents split and my dad went AWOL it sucked to do stupid ass projects in primary school where we were supposed to talk about our families. It just open up a wound.
May 25th, 2007 at 9:17 am
I’m so glad I have birds. All of you caring parents have my respect and admiration. You have the most difficult job in the world, especially the single parents.
May 25th, 2007 at 9:43 am
Not one comment questioning whether the aforementioned youngster may have deserved to be spat upon. Or maybe the Pen was just helping the other kid with a spot on his shirt. Could it be that Pigpen had just swallowed a bug and was simply trying to clear his throat of the insect?
May 25th, 2007 at 9:58 am
Daco, I quote directly from the word of AT:
“…told me that, apparently unprovoked, he spit on a kid…”
“Pigpen couldn’t tell me why he did it, or who the kid was”
The kid was probably in his face, and he didn’t like it. I don’t think he’s going around starting stuff just to start it, but still, its not the way to end it.
May 25th, 2007 at 10:22 am
“Pigpen couldn’t tell me why he did it, or who the kid was”
Then it is obvious that Pigpen was not at fault. He couldn’t tell you why he did it because you were all up in his stuff. He’s five. He was too nervous to think up a good ex….ah er, reason. The spit kid probably had a stain issue that PP was helping him/her resolve.
May 25th, 2007 at 10:35 am
In our house, this would probably get a listerine strip in the mouth. If he wants to spit so badly, give him something yucky to spit out. My son hates mint so when his mouth is “dirty”, it needs to be freshened with a listerine strip (the automatic reaction is to spit it out since he hates it so much!).
May 25th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
AT.
Looks like Pig Pen has Daco in his corner, on the other hand, I think you handled the situation very well. Sometimes it’s hell being a parent, trust me, I have a 19 and a 17 year old.
Debbie
May 26th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
One of mine went thru a brief biting phase at preschool. Another briefly decided stealing the other first graders’ lunch money was a good plan. Currently, my 15 year old has decided that grades are The Man’s way of keeping the cool hippie kids down.
Today it’s spitting, tomorrow it will be something else. Deal with it, don’t overreact, be firm, and move on.
Poor baby. He’s probably mad enough to spit, given how his year has gone. I’d spit, too.
YOu’re a great Daddy. It’s all gonne be fine.
May 26th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
We just tried the naughty mat today. It seems to produce just the right amount of guilt and shame to be effective. Just kidding. She seemed to understand that being on what was once the door mat — now evolved to the naughty mat — is something to be avoided. Does anyone out there know how to get a kid to take a nap once you put them in the regular bed??? W is uncaged now and there is no more forced naps. Damn.
May 26th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
I’m commenting late, but my first reaction was the same as most. He really values your approval, so no need for soap, spanks, or stuff like that for him. Just separate yourself from him for a short time (exactly what you did:) and then do what everyone else said, deal with the issue and then kiss him goodnight after the issue is dealt with. Everyday’s a new day.
You sound like you are doing a good job with your two boys.