I think one general thing is that businesses tend to want to go non-smoking but can’t because of competition. The ban takes that away from them and actually allows them to go non-smoking.

A business may be privately owned but it’s the public that the ban is trying to protect.

There is nothing wrong with banning the sale of tobacco. I posted in a thread over at the forum that I think anyone should have the right to grow anything for their own personal consumption. Tobacco, marijuana, sunflowers,poppy, tomatoes,peanuts…whatever.

If smokers want to smoke, then they should learn how to grow the stuff. Ending the legal sale of tobacco is not prohibition. Criminalizing the use is.

The huge increase of state tax on tobacco is hard to resist. We would like the additional taxes to help fund education. Lord knows we could us the help, but what is the real difference between gas companies price gouging and the government tax gouging?

I would suggest that if you or I don’t want smoke blown in our faces, we shouldn’t patronize businesses that allow smoking. Now that is a market force.

If a person wants to kill themselves slowly that’s their right I guess.

(Of course there is the issue of having to subsidize their medical costs if Medicaid is involved…)

I would just rather not be held hostage by their stinky smoke when I go out to eat or kick up my heels at a club.

You come home and have to wash your hair and your clothes right away to get rid of the stink!!

Let them smoke it up all they want at home and in their cars.

For myself personally, I’m still developing my view on this..

Since I don’t really value the freedom to injure myself, personally, I’m not really bothered by it. If I wanted the right to injure myself I guess I’d be upset?

I think it should be left up to the business owner, as well. Here in the Tobacco State, where there will probably never be a ban on smoking, by their own volition, few restaurants and many bars are smoke-free. Business seems to thrive at both smoking and non-smoking facilities. I’ve yet to hear of anyplace going bankrupt due to their own, or a competitor’s smoking policy.

WRT denying public health aid to people who smoked–so you’re content to see them suffer and die, rather than intervene? How barbaric. I’m glad the majority of people in this country are more civilized than that.

I don’t understand the legal web created around smoking. If a drug company sold a product that did this much damage to people they would be sued and shut down. Period.

I have zero compassion for smokers. They cost tax payers millions in medical bills, they are a public health hazard. In Massachusetts you can’t smoke anywhere in public: restaurants and bars included. After the smoking ban bars started realizing that more and more people were coming out and staying out later. The cigarette haze is gone and people aren’t feeling so dragged down and tired and stay late into the night. More people, like myself, are willing to to go out and whoop it up.

In a nutshell, smoking is bad. Making the air a bit healthier for my kids is alllll good.

Uh, no. None of the foods sold at fast food restaurants are toxic. You’re just hyperventilating.

I do believe the food has additives in it that are either A. just plain not healthy and/or B. addictive.

Does anyone remember the McD’s ad campaign of many years ago featuring the “Big Mac Attack”? In it people were leaving their houses or jobs because they just had to have a Big Mac right that very second?

I think maybe there is more truth to that than we would like to think.

Most people are intelligent enough to know that a few meals from a fast food joint are not toxic in the lethal, fall down immediately and die way, but that over a period of time and with enough consumption, they certainly are poisonous to the human body.

My point, that you must have missed, was that we are a fast food nation, that these restaurants are not obligated (and don’t) have to look out for our health, but that if the government is taking it upon themselves to regulate every conceivable detriment to our health in an effort to protect us from ourselves, than the fast food industry should be showing up next on the list.

My opinions on fast food have evolved from personal experience, observation of my childrens’s health and their eating habits as well as watching various friends and family members struggle with their health and fast food eating habits.

I also know a “food scientist”. Doesn’t work for the big two but you would be surprised how food is “formulated”.

I’m a professor of biochemistry at a midwest medical school. I’m course director for a 1st year medical school course called “metabolism” which deals with nutrition and metabolic biochemistry. Perhaps it is you who needs to “read up a little.”

“Most people are intelligent enough to know that a few meals from a fast food joint are not toxic in the lethal, fall down immediately and die way, but that over a period of time and with enough consumption, they certainly are poisonous to the human body.”

Too much water, over a period of time and enough consumption, is certainly poisonous to the human body. It’s called drowning. That doesn’t make water toxic or poisonous.

“My point, that you must have missed, was that we are a fast food nation, that these restaurants are not obligated (and don’t) have to look out for our health . . .”

My point, that you must have missed, is that the willingness of people to abuse certain foods doesn’t make those foods toxic. The willingness of certain people to abuse the facts to pretend that it does only shows that those people don’t understand the meaning of the word “toxic” and makes those people appear foolish.

“. . . but that if the government is taking it upon themselves to regulate every conceivable detriment to our health in an effort to protect us from ourselves, than the fast food industry should be showing up next on the list.”

This is just silly.

“My opinions on fast food have evolved from personal experience, observation of my childrens’s health and their eating habits as well as watching various friends and family members struggle with their health and fast food eating habits.”

I’ve consumed a bit of fast food in my day. I have normal blood pressure, no signs of cardiovascular disease and a body mass index of 23. I biked ca. 100 miles this past weekend, and averaged 16 mph for the first 56 miles. I am 52, and I have never struggled with my health.

If your friends and family members have bad fast food eating habits, that is not a sign that fast food is toxic. It is a sign that your family and friends are abusing food. Let’s put the blame where it belongs.

“I also know a “food scientist”. Doesn’t work for the big two but you would be surprised how food is “formulated”.”

Do please share with us the list of toxins that are part of fast food formulation. I, for one, am all ears.

If I could get a list of what actually goes into fast food, I’d be quite the slueth.

Just like the person who finally blew the whistle on the tobacco companies and finally exposed all the stuff that goes into cigarettes.

I’ll be the first to admit that there are people in my family who have atrocious eating habits when it comes to fast food. (and probably food in general)

but I wonder what makes them go back again and again even after they’ve been told by medical professionals that it is bad for them and they have to stop.

Kind of reminds me of people who…. smoke/drink/do drugs.

Kind of reminds me of people who…. smoke/drink/do drugs.”

Well, people are complex, but for many people, I think the comparison you make between food abuse, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, and smoking is valid.

I think certain foods make people happy. More of those foods make them happier. The abuse of food (in the absence of sufficient exercise) makes them fat, which means they become unhappy because their clothes don’t fit, their back and legs hurt, their doctor nags them and their spouse/partner no longer finds them attractive. The unhappiness drives them to seek pleasure, which more comfort food affords. You could substitute alcohol abuse (as distinct from alcoholism, which is different), drug abuse and cigarette smoking.

Of course, the difference is that food–unlike alcohol, cigarettes and drugs–is not a poison. The excess food only becomes a problem when the amount of exercise is not comensurate with the intake. There is no healthy dose of cigarettes. Alcohol is a mixed thing, since the data show that moderate alcohol consumption is protective for heart disease. As for drugs, small amounts are usually harmless, large amounts of most drugs (even asperin) are toxic.

Even if the food was not necessarily good for people.

The meals for children at one restaurant are called “Happy meals”.

Then when you grow up you can get a “Super Size” meal.

A super size meal contains far more calories than the average person needs in a day. In one meal.

In order to balance that intake you would have to excercise for hours.

Corporations are in the business of identifying needs and filling them. Sorry, if you imagine that carrots will ever be a comfort food for the majority of Americans, even with the most extraordinary marketing, then the sky is a different color in your world.

“Then when you grow up you can get a “Super Size” meal. A super size meal contains far more calories than the average person needs in a day. In one meal. In order to balance that intake you would have to excercise for hours.”

Which is exactly my point. Fast food is *not* toxic. Too much food and not enough excercise leads to obsesity, which is “toxic.” Don’t blame the food. Don’t blame the person you’re buying the food from. Blame the person eating too much of it. Anything else is just denial. Time for people who abuse food to take a little personal responsibility.

I originally said that it was A. not healthy and/or B. addictive.

Why, I wonder, do they even offer super size meals?

Seems to me you could get the public to buy two smaller meals for more money than one super size one if they are determined to over eat anyway.

Corporations are in the business of making money. They will create a need if they have to in order to do that.

“Why, I wonder, do they even offer super size meals?”

Yeah, blame anyone but the people who overeat.

Sorry, AT. Maybe we shouldn’t Bogart the smoking thing either.

Joel, while I appreciate your intellect and always respect the views and opinions of other people, even when I do not agree, I was raised to be a lady, to fight fair, and to debate (keyword, here) in a classy manner that does not degrade or demean others. Due to the way that you present your case, I do not wish to engage in discussion with you anymore, and won’t fall for your taunting again.

Also: it’s spelled aspirin.

I can see you’re unaccustomed to being disagreed with. Too bad. You might learn something if you stop letting your ego get in the way.

“Also: it’s spelled aspirin.”

Indeed it is. Mea culpa.